'Pro-feminist' men again, erk!

[flexibeast]

A sex worker has posted an entry in both the feministsexwork and feminist_rage communities, entitled "patriachy is still alive and well with some male feminists...", about her experience attending a "men stopping violence" conference in Atlanta. Unsurprisingly (to me, at least), the experience included an encounter with a man who was apparently upset at the notion of a feminist who is not only a sex worker, but who is also not anti-sex work; and an encounter with "older men who were so venomous in their verbal attacks as to leave my co-presenter shaking at the end [and who] were simply bound and determined to save 'those women' from 'the male oppressors'." :-/

Note to guys who want to call themselves 'pro-feminist':

• Listen to the experiences of all women - don't ignore and/or dismiss the experiences of women who don't fit in with your pet feminist theory;


• Further to the previous point, consider the incongruity of claiming to be supportive of feminism whilst at the same time engaging in behaviour which is very much similar to the historic belittling by male culture of the experiences and beliefs of women;


• Realise that there is actually a substantial corpus of feminist writing which takes a more complex view of sex work than "Sex work is teh 3v1l!". Sheila Jeffreys, Gloria Steinem, Mary Daly, etc., whilst being important contributors to feminism, are not the definitive representatives of feminism in toto;


• Further to the previous point, try reading some alternative analyses of sex work from people actually involved in the industry, such as "Prostitution seen as Violence Against Women - a supportive or oppressive view?", by Liv Jessen (recipient of the first ever Human Rights Award from Amnesty International for Prostitutes' Rights work), or "Sexworkers Critique of Swedish Prostitution Policy", by Petra Östergren.

So guys, how about it? Or are you only supportive of feminism when you don't have to examine, consider and change your own behaviour?
 

Comments

nervously steps forth

[jomaraubat.livejournal.com]

Hi. Men like that make me cringe . Some second wave feminist writers make me cringe too. As soon as someone starts defining "good" sex and "bad" sex, they're going to be hurting people. I'm a sole parent father who considers himself a sex-positive feminist. I've also had such a straight upbringing that I have had to, and have to, constantly examine and change my behaviour (hopefully for the better). I reckon that seeking after pleasure in whatever form you want and with whomever you want is a good thing, as long as you're fair and kind.

Picked up your thread from curlygrrrl who's on my flist. I like your journal and your commentary. I'm pretty new to LJ and don't post a lot, but I'd like to friend you, if you don't mind.

Re: nervously steps forth

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

*nod*

Interestingly enough, i have found that the men who behave that way tend to identify as 'pro-feminist', rather than 'feminist', usually on the basis that they are showing 'respect' for women by not annexing women's space. And yet, in my experience, it's these men, and not the guys who identify simply as 'feminist', that exhibit very patriarchal behaviours in their interactions with women . . . .

Re. friending me: i don't mind at all! :-)

Re: nervously steps forth

[porcineflight.livejournal.com]

Whereas in my experience (as I have discussed with you earlier) can be the opposite.

Re: nervously steps forth

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Interesting, isn't it? i wonder if our different experiences are related to the context in which we encounter these guys? i mean, my negative experiences of 'pro-feminist' men have predominantly occured during in the context of discussions about female sexuality and pornography - is there a context in which dominates your negative encounters with 'feminist' men?

[badpauly.livejournal.com]

Unsurprisingly (to me, at least), the experience included an encounter with a man who was apparently upset at the notion of a feminist who is not only a sex worker, but who is also not anti-sex work; and an encounter with "older men who were so venomous in their verbal attacks as to leave my co-presenter shaking at the end [and who] were simply bound and determined to save 'those women' from 'the male oppressors'." :-/

Some men, just like some women, have trouble dealling with the whole of feminism, and only seem to align themselves with a certain section of it, for example the Dworkin radical end. They think that pornography is bad, sex-workers are bad, sex is bad... etc. etc.

I know a few feminist females who enjoy confronting these types with the "I'm a feminist submissive who likes to fuck" or "I'm a feminist sex-worker" and then destroying them in the ensuing conversation... nothign like a knowledge of the facts to quieten them down.

Radicals are everywhere, at least they are easy to spot most of the time.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Some men, just like some women, have trouble dealling with the whole of feminism, and only seem to align themselves with a certain section of it, for example the Dworkin radical end. They think that pornography is bad, sex-workers are bad, sex is bad... etc. etc.

Indeed . . . . it often seems to me as though such men are trying to compensate for feeling guilty for patriarchy and men's patriarchal behaviour. But it's rather ludicrous to do so by trying to invalidate certain women's experiences and/or trying to intimidate them when they express viewpoints that the said men don't agree with. :-/

Radicals are everywhere, at least they are easy to spot most of the time.

*nod* i consider myself to be a radical in many respects, and i think i'm often rather noticeable. :-)