Messages

[flexibeast]

Something that fascinates me is the extent to which people value a message based on the messenger rather than on the message itself. Sometimes that makes sense: one can't have much respect for a politician who rails against homosexuality whilst engaging in same-sex acts himself. At other times, however, it seems surreal to me to see a message ignored when one person says it, and described with glowing praise when another person says it. So if i say "We need to learn to empathise with one another, to try to understand where other people are coming from", it's no big deal; but if the Dalai Lama says it, suddenly it becomes profundity that clearly demonstrates what a wise and caring person the Dalai Lama is. (And fwiw, the Dalai Lama and i apparently occupy similar positions on the Political Compass - i re-did the test earlier today, and scored -6.12 on the Economic Left/Right scale and -7.54 on the Social Libertarian/Authoritarian scale.)

Now it may be argued that the Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader of millions upon millions of people, whereas i'm barely the spiritual leader of myself. :-) But that doesn't change the message; it merely says that the message comes from a 'trusted source' in the former instance, and an 'untrusted source' in the latter. And what makes the Dalai Lama a trusted source? To my mind it's his words and actions, faith in him as a spiritual leader, or a combination of the two. If it's his words, well, again, that should mean that people should rank me as a trusted source also. If it's his actions, well, i think many of us would be able to do some impressive things if we were granted the position of power granted to the Dalai Lama - a grant based on faith (i.e. that he's the reincarnation of a particular bodhisattva etc.) And if it's based on faith, that he should be taken seriously due to his status as a reincarnated bodhisattva, whereas i'm merely a common oik, well, who's to say that i'm not 'merely' a common oik if i'm saying similar things to the Dalai Lama? (Although i suppose that it could be argued that even a broken clock is right twice a day. :-) )

But the issue here is not the Dalai Lama himself¹; it's about people not really listening to a message unless it comes from a particular person. In his interview for Playboy magazine, not long before his death, John Lennon expressed frustration at people worshiping the messenger rather than actually listening to the message:

What happens is somebody comes along with a good piece of truth. Instead of the truth's being looked at, the person who brought it is looked at. The messenger is worshiped, instead of the message. So there would be Christianity, Mohammedanism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Marxism, Maoism -- everything -- it is always about a person and never about what he says.

[ http://www.john-lennon.com/playboyinterviewwithjohnlennonandyokoono.htm ]

And Lennon himself experienced this, with people seeming to be more interested in what John Lennon said rather than what John Lennon said.

Personally, i think this is a problem that's endemic to Western culture, and that's sad, because to me that suggests that many people are missing out on some profound insights because they're waiting for them to come from the 'right' person. There are things people on my LJ friends-list have posted which have really made me stop in my mental tracks and think "Wow . . . . very interesting!", such that my perspective has fundamentally shifted. i treasure such moments - not only because of the learning experience they afford me, but because they demonstrate to me that wisdom is not just the province of an elite few.

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1. There's an old saying that goes something like "I don't have a problem with God; it's his fan club I can't stand." Similarly, although i might disagree with the Dalai Lama on certain issues - e.g. sexuality - i have less of a problem with him than with some of his supporters: i find it a bit weird when people who probably think it's entirely reasonable to critique, say, José Luis de Jesús Miranda as a spiritual leader, then go on to demand that the Dalai Lama not face any critique or criticism.
 

Comments

[not-in-denial.livejournal.com]

Yes! I've often thought about this myself. I've also had my perspective shifted by some of what most people would call the most "unlikely" people. But I think finding those shifts in "unlikely" people actually often makes them hit home faster and harder.

I love hearing what people say, regardless of who is saying it. What they think, how they think, how they feel, what makes them feel. That's where those truths and amazingly magical ideas can come from, and it's so amazing.

But if I don't shut up I'll be back to "omg humans are so awesome, I love us!", so. Moving on.

A few weeks ago I was privileged enough to experience being on the other side of it, too... a close friend of mine confided in me that *I* was the reason she had overcome her homophobia. I honestly didn't know what to say about that, and I still don't, but a lot of people don't seem to understand what a huge deal it is!

[porcineflight.livejournal.com]

My political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

And yay for discussion!

Values and opinions aren't worth much if they cannot stand up to respectful criticism. It just shits me when people have the attitude 'I don't tolerate fools and if you disagree with me, you're a fool" or "You said something stupid once therefore you are an idiot with no intelligent contribution".

We all have our good and bad days, we often have opinions based on our own experience (which may be changed if we understand better the experiences of others), debate can bring out the best ideas and sometimes it is good to have different people tackling the same issue in different ways.

As for the person being more important to people than the ideas, sometimes it is easier to "worship" than to take the idea on into one's life and challenge oneself fully.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Values and opinions aren't worth much if they cannot stand up to respectful criticism.

*nod* Well put.

As for the person being more important to people than the ideas, sometimes it is easier to "worship" than to take the idea on into one's life and challenge oneself fully.

*nod* Sadly true.

[astarrymist.livejournal.com]

You're awesome! I also find myself completely fascinated by people. I want to know you. I want to hear anything you have to say. I want to know your passions, hopes, and dreams. I want to know your cultural background and why you practice the religion you do. I want to know these things about everyone and anyone, because every person has something rich to share with this world. LOL at your: "omg humans are so awesome, I love us!" I feel that way often, but paradoxically, find myself sometimes needing to withdraw totally from others and seek my own sanctuary. I love and hate people at the same time. I'm more of an idealist than not, so what that really means is that I love people and have hope for humanity—that they can change, whilst I simply hate the state of things as they are and the evil people do.

Also, I managed to bring my own husband out of homophobia and into tolerance. I've helped one person in this world open to love and so I can die feeling fully accomplished =)

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

a close friend of mine confided in me that *I* was the reason she had overcome her homophobia.

Wow, cool! :-D

I honestly didn't know what to say about that

Maybe it was the sort of thing to 'reply' to with a broad smile. :-)

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

I don't know that it is even Western excepting that it's mostly the West that has the means to create a ginormous audience right now. I imagine the Japanese do it, frex.

The reverse holds true: if someoneone has a rep for being a nerd or dwork, etc, they won't be heard except by the small bunch who listen to such.

People can be really thick, especially when it comes to herd behaviour.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

I don't know that it is even Western

Er, sorry, i wasn't trying to imply that it was only a Western phenomenon; i just wanted to say that i think it's an issue in Western culture, of which i have experience to a degree far exceeding that of my experience of non-Western cultures, which i therefore feel far less qualified to comment on.

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

I set foot where angels fear to tread when it comes to things I think are probably human traits :-)

[naked-wrat.livejournal.com]

Economic Left/Right: -8.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.87

That is me :P

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Go tune out elsewhere, you lazy mantis-riding, flower-firing hippie!

:-)

[astarrymist.livejournal.com]

I think you've made a profound observation here. I will often remark about Christianity having been corrupted because its followers today are focusing on the messenger and not the message. But, I think this is really a problem intrinsic in society—it goes much further, like you said. It would be interesting to discuss where the need comes from. Why do most people seek out someone powerful and influential to provide them with the wisdom they could find on their own? Why do they ignore "regular" people, but listen to the same thing said by someone "great"? People do not inheritently trust others it seems. They do not wish to see regular people outshining them, being wiser then them, "better" then them. Maybe they simply do not trust themselves and don't believe they have their own power, their own ability to shine in the same way. Stepping in to that kind of power is possibly scary, as it would force one to acknowledge and live up to their own wisdom. Sometimes, its much safer to have someone else say it for you. But that someone else has to be someone important . . . so they can feel validated and assured . . . and strength in numbers helps keep them from questioning this whole system.

Thanks for inspiring my contemplative mind.
I honor your divine wisdom, O Great and Holy Heirodule of Baphomet! =)

[surreal-angela.livejournal.com]

Why do most people seek out someone powerful and influential to provide them with the wisdom they could find on their own? Why do they ignore "regular" people, but listen to the same thing said by someone "great"? People do not inheritently trust others it seems.

(Apologies in advance for how inarticulate this will be!!)

It all goes back to that herd behaviour - humans as a whole need to see someone else up there, saying these things and making them real, and who better than a celebrity or leader? Sure, your average joe might talk about these things, but if they really knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't be 'average joes', they'd be the leader...

We have a need, I guess, for leaders. For superheroes, for gurus. For people to tell us what we already know, to verify that our trust in ourselves is not misplaced.

The trick is finding that in our everyday lives, rather than relying on what someone distant but famed is saying to the masses. I could almost guarantee that every person has someone in their day to day lives that has inspired them, challenged their thinking or behaviour, or otherwise helped them become a better person... I know I do - several in fact, and if people thought about it they'd realise it too, these people who've been influencing them for the better possibly without anyone realising it...

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

if they really knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't be 'average joes', they'd be the leader...

Sorry, so are you saying that this is how other people think, or is this what you yourself think?

[surreal-angela.livejournal.com]

Sorry knew I wasn't being clear!!

That's how people in general think - if something isn't put forward by someone with what we see as the appropriate qualifications, we (as in, people) tend not to listen...

It takes wisdom to see wisdom in others, especially when you aren't necessarily expecting to...

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Thanks for inspiring my contemplative mind.

You're most welcome - glad i could return the favour. :-)

I honor your divine wisdom, O Great and Holy Heirodule of Baphomet! =)

Heh, not sure what to say to that . . . . !

[astarrymist.livejournal.com]

"Heh, not sure what to say to that . . . . !"

Well, the way I see it is, if Jesus or the Dalai Lama or whomever is worthy of it, surely you are too! =)

"You're most welcome - glad i could return the favour. :-)"

My turn to say: Heh, not sure what to say to that . . . . !