Assumptions

[flexibeast]

A friend of mine had an interesting experience recently.

A young female couple were "talking dirty" in her presence. After a while, one member of the couple made a comment along the lines of "Oops, this might be a bit much for [my friend]". My friend got the impression that this comment came about because she looks 'mainstream' due to her manner of dress and lack of tattoos and/or piercings).

Then, later on, when one member of the couple in question was describing some performance art piece, my friend, feeling very tired, tried to keep herself upright by crossing her arms across her chest. "Sorry, is this too confrontational for you?" she was asked.

As a former sex worker, this woman has had sex with literally thousands of guys. Prior to becoming a sex worker, she regularly participated in sex parties, orgies and gang bangs. She's assisted female victims of male abuse, been a union organiser, and organised and/or participated in a plethora of public political events (for IWD, Reclaim the Night, independence for East Timor, queer rights, workers' rights, etc. etc.)

Unsurprisingly, therefore, she's not easily shocked. But she doesn't look 'alternative', and so people read her as conservative. It alternately amuses and annoys her.

And then we have the other side of the coin: i often get the impression that i surprise people by my politeness and courtesy - despite having long hair, tits and a goatee, and a nose piercing (amongst others). :-P

At what point do the categories we create shift from being useful to useless?
 

Comments

misread

[firinel.livejournal.com]

It may be a case of her actions being misread since, well, crossing one's arms is generally read as an expression of a variety of things, usually none of which are pleasant. I've found it interesting, for example, how many British people believe this icon I'm using to be an 'angry' icon, or something similarly negative, when it's just a general "thinking" thing I do (twirl my hair).

Then again, I didn't notice anyone treating me signifigantly different when my hair was green and I had a nosering.

Re: misread

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Well, but i wonder whether that action would have been still been misinterpreted as 'defensiveness' if she had not been read as conservative overall?

Re. your icon - that's interesting. i certainly wouldn't have interpreted it as being an 'angry' icon, but hey, i'm not British. :-)

Glad to hear that you didn't notice different treatment at the time you describe: that's how things should be, i reckon. :-)

[mizzpyx.livejournal.com]

Ah, don't I know that one.
It's quite incredible the difference in reactions, in social interactions, in the way I'm treated and percieved by people, I've had between now and a year or two ago. And the only difference between now and then isn't really my behaviour, how I act or dress or talk or interact. It's solely in about three inches of hair that I have growing out of my head now and dyed reddish-brown, that a couple of years ago was shaved into nifty shapes and dyed all sorts of colours.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

*nod*

So are you now treated better, or worse, or simply different?

[mizzpyx.livejournal.com]

Depends on the perspective.
From the outside it looks like I'm being treated 'better'. People are more polite to me. Guys will step aside to let me pass. Little old ladies aren't shocked when I'm polite to them. People are more likely to ask me for directions. And people have completely stopped yelling things like 'dyke' and 'queer' at me from their cars or across the street.

However.. I'm constantly aware that that's because I appear to be a 'girl' now. And I'm constantly aware of how I'm more likely to be passed over, less listened to, in ways that didn't happen so much when I was more ambiguous. Sure, people are nicer now, but.. it's not a nice kind of nice. Being treated like a 'girl' feels patronising.
Know what I mean?

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Yep, i definitely know what you mean. It really pisses me off to watch women being treated like babies, as though it's reasonable to talk around and/or over us. i tend not to get treated like that, due to often being read as a cisgendered male; but when i see it happening, and i feel the situation warrants, i'll make a point of ignoring the interrupting male and saying to the interrupted woman, "Sorry, what were you saying?" Cisgendered men often need to be disabused of the notion that men's speech is 'important' and women's speech is 'unimportant' and thus able to be dismissed easily.

i do worry, though, that my actions in this respect - including me being polite or courteous - will be regarded as patronising, irrespective of my intent. The approach i describe above could be seen as assuming that women can't look after themselves; and even though i hold doors open if i see people just about to walk through them regardless of their gender, individual women for whom i hold a door open aren't going to know that. Ah well.

[mizzpyx.livejournal.com]

Yep- that's the thing. It's kinda making me want to chop my hair off again, but I've spent since the summer growing it and I'm stubborn as all hell, damnit! But in some ways, getting read as queer, or a boyish girl, or androgynous, leads to getting a lot more respect than just getting read as a girl. And I'd prefer respect over courtesy any day of the week.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

*nod* And fair enough, too!

So do you feel that the sort of behaviour i described in my previous comment is ultimately disrespectful?

[mizzpyx.livejournal.com]

Sorry for not replying to the whole thing there!

I don't believe that your behaviour is in any way disrespectful. You're aware that women are perfectly capable of looking after themselves, and you're also aware that your position as someone who gets percieved as a cismale is a priveleged one in this instance. Privelege exists, and it's how you use it that's important. You seem to use your position in a way that attempts to redress the balance, taking advantage of the fact that you'll be taken more notice of to deflect notice back to the people being ignored- in this instance, people who are percieved as women.
I think it's actually a really important role to play. Currently, as someone percieved as a woman, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to speaking up. The usual choice between being silent or being a nag. You're in a position to put a third option in there, and I think it's nifty that you do.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Well, cool. :-)

[haw-thorn.livejournal.com]

"At what point do the categories we create shift from being useful to useless?"

Probably at the point where we start thinking that categories describe 'reality', rather than describing the way we order our perceptions.

[happyevilslosh.livejournal.com]

Profound

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

*nod* Indeed. "The map is not the terrain" etc. etc.

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

I find people are often surprised that I don't want to eat there young because I wear big boots.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

*laugh*

[winterkoninkje.livejournal.com]

Wait, you don't? Aw damn.

[caprine.livejournal.com]

Many people seem overly influenced by surface appearance. To wit:

Friend A: Friend B would be shocked by [topic of conversation].
caprine: Where on earth did you get that idea?
Friend A: He wears button-down shirts...
caprine: I've been in a threesome with him, and also he has taken so much LSD in his life that he is legally a piece of tie-dye. Stop making assumptions about people based on their clothes!