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[flexibeast]

Okay. i am very angry.

i have a message that i need to scream out to the world:

DON'T CHEAT ON YOUR PARTNER AND CALL IT POLYAMORY!

By 'cheat' i here mean "agree to have one relationship style with your partner and then break that agreement - especially on the sly".

This issue has come up a few times in my life recently. Essentially, the scenario is: "i want to have a relationship with someone other than my wife. She hasn't agreed to that, but i'll do it anyway. i'm polyamorous."

Since WHEN has polyamory been simply another word for cheating? The fact is, IT'S NOT.

You know, i've been forced to reconsider my position that polyamory doesn't include the concept of casual sex. i note again that i wholeheartedly endore the concept of casual sex - i just haven't believed that it's part of the concept of polyamory. But someone said something today that made me reconsider that. i'm not entirely convinced, but i'm certainly reconsidering my stance.

i will NOT, however, change my opinion that polyamory involves behaving ETHICALLY and HONESTLY.

And i will continue to get furious at people who help perpetuate the notion that "polyamory is simply cheating" by cheating and then trying to hide their poor behaviour behind the shield of 'polyamory'.
 

Comments

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

i will NOT, however, change my opinion that polyamory involves behaving ETHICALLY and HONESTLY.


thankyou.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Heh, you're welcome. :-)

[jomaraubat.livejournal.com]

AHA. I should have read this before commenting on your more recent post. But I'm stupid and always read Posts back to front chronologically

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Heh, well, that's fair enough - after all, that's how posts appear on one's friends page . . . . :-)

[porcineflight.livejournal.com]

I believe polyamory can include casual sex, but I agree that poly and cheating are 2 different things. It is also possible to cheat in a poly relationship if you break the rules - eg keeping secrets.

However I try to be diplomatic about it. If a "cheating" person pursues me thinking I am into the same values as them, I excuse myself, saying i don't play with attached popele whose partner's aren't invloved/givng permission.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

I believe polyamory can include casual sex

Yes, well, from what i've been reading, there actually seems to be consensus around that point, and i think it's fairly clear that i will probably have to change my opinion in this regard. :-)

But here's a question for you: would you feel comfortable with someone who only engages in emotionally uninvolved, no-strings-attached casual sex, and doesn't have any other relationships, calling themselves 'polyamorous'?

[porcineflight.livejournal.com]

Again that is the whole sticy situation of putting our ouwn definitions on other people's identities.

At the very least they would be non-monogamous

In reality would they call themselves poly? or single?

What if they genuinely had affection/care for some of their "no strings" sexual encouters? That is a big grey area

Are they only having sex once withthier casual partners, or is it ongoing casual?

I think it is a complicated area to be wanting to impose simple solutions.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

At the very least they would be non-monogamous

*nod*

What if they genuinely had affection/care for some of their "no strings" sexual encouters? That is a big grey area

Well, i have recently had situations put to me in which that was the case, and calling that 'poly' now basically makes sense to me. Which is why my question specifically described a scenario in which that was not the case. So given that scenario, what do you think?

Are they only having sex once withthier casual partners, or is it ongoing casual?

Well, just as a data point, i've usually heard the term "fuck-buddy" to describe a situation in which there's regular sex, but no commitment beyond friendship . . . .

I think it is a complicated area to be wanting to impose simple solutions.

*nod* Most certainly; i agree it's all very complimicated. :-) But i think it's useful to have discussions as to what terms are being used to mean, because otherwise further complicatinos may result. What if, say, someone defined a lesbian as "belonging to the sisterhood of women"? It's not an unreasonable definition; and yet, in its most frequent usage, that's not what "lesbian" is regarded as meaning.

Up until recently, i had never heard polyamory used to include casual sex. But within the last month or two, that usage is popping up everywhere. So i'm trying to adjust my understandings based on current usage . . . .

[night101owl.livejournal.com]

True true true.

I even get a little annoyed when people say "I'm poly, my partner is mono" or even vice-versa. Poly and mono describe the way you organize a relationship, not your deep down personal identity. "I am best suited for poly relationships" is more accurate. But cheating on a person who thinks they're in a mono relationship is so NOT polyamory.

I agree that casual sex is not a part of polyamory, but I do think that there's a BIG overlap of people who are in polyamorous relationships and people who are in relationships that are open to casual sex with other people. Once you get to the "your having sex with someone else does not indicate that you don't love me" place of non-monogamy, then there's a lot of room for negotiation.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Poly and mono describe the way you organize a relationship, not your deep down personal identity.

That's interesting - for me, and most other people i know, those terms do describe personal identities. i certainly see what you're saying, though - it's a different perspective for me to consider . . . .

I agree that casual sex is not a part of polyamory

Heh, well, i've just discovered that there are quite a few people who think otherwise. :-)

I do think that there's a BIG overlap of people who are in polyamorous relationships and people who are in relationships that are open to casual sex with other people. Once you get to the "your having sex with someone else does not indicate that you don't love me" place of non-monogamy, then there's a lot of room for negotiation.

*nod*

[night101owl.livejournal.com]

for me, and most other people i know, those terms do describe personal identities

Everybody wants everything to be a deep personal identity these days. I just *am* a non-monagmous person, I *am* a carnivore, I *am* fundamentally disorganized... it all seems to lead to the follow-up of, whatever it is, "it's not my fault!"

Personally, I prefer to claim responsibility for the choices I make. I choose to practice polyamory. I choose to eat meat-- and am willing to face whatever criticisms that come for that. I choose to express myself as a queer femme.

Partly, it's my thing for choice and autonomy (phrasing things as identity sounds like I'm making an apology), and partly it's because I've learned that my identity, whatever it is, is pretty damn fluid.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

*nod*

i certainly see your point - the notion of 'identity' has, at least in my experience, become strongly associated with the politics of the "It's not a choice, so leave us alone!" crowd. Personally, i disagree with this strategy, because it basically implies that it's okay to discriminate against those who have chosen their identity.

Now, i've chosen not to eat meat. And to avoid animal products to a great extent, too. That's certainly a choice i've made; i in no way claim that i'm 'naturally' quasi-vegan! But when it comes to being (amongst other things) polyamorous and polysexual - well, i could live in a monogamous relationship, but it would be very uncomfortable for me. Hence, i feel that my choice to be in poly relationships is actually somewhat circumscribed. Further, i don't know how i could choose to not be attracted to various people of various genders. (And when i say 'attracted' i'm not talking about "seeking to have sex and/or develop a relationship"; i'm talking about the "Ooh, i think i like you!" thang.)

What about you? What, if anything determined/determines your choices with regards to your relationship(s)? And are you able to choose to not find someone attractive?

[night101owl.livejournal.com]

Officially, my being queer is a choice. And there is a lot of truth to that, because I do follow some rational decision-making factors when I don't get into relationships with men.

Unofficially, there's the chance I could have an erotic response to anything human that moves, but I do have a type that I find myself gravitating towards, with several other types that catch my eye from time to time. My experiment with bisexuality was a pretty spectacular failure, but that could have just been the guy.

In any event, I'm not sure if that could be a strong preference, or identity. I have a lot of strong preferences, and maybe it would be weird for me to categorize them all as identity. But maybe that's what identity is all about? Creamy peanut butter rather than chunky, and girls rather than boys?

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Officially, my being queer is a choice. And there is a lot of truth to that, because I do follow some rational decision-making factors when I don't get into relationships with men.

*nod*

I have a lot of strong preferences, and maybe it would be weird for me to categorize them all as identity. But maybe that's what identity is all about? Creamy peanut butter rather than chunky, and girls rather than boys?

Heh, interesting point! "Hi, i'm queer, poly, and a chunkypeanutbutterist". :-)

It does indeed seem that identity is often used as a shorthand way of saying "i have this set of preferences". Not only in the area of human relationships, but also, for example, in terms of spiritual identity: one could say that being 'Christian' means that one prefers Christian teachings/beliefs to other teachings/beliefs. But what about ethnicity as an identity? What 'preference(s)' are involved there, if any?

[ubiquity.livejournal.com]

Word.

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

:-)

*continued icon love* :-)

[ubiquity.livejournal.com]

You'll be pleased to know that I recently made that one my default icon. (:

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

Yay! :-)

[gendertrash.livejournal.com]

it makes me so angry when people go off on how poly = cheeting or someone is cheeting and then they are like eh it's poly (even though my partner doesn 't know about it)

really pisses me off

i do disagree that casual sex is not part of poly...everyone is different in terms of what they want/are comfortable with and thus every poly relationship is different...i know as someone who is poly i consider casual sex to absoultly be part of how i personally define poly

[flexibeast.livejournal.com]

*nod* Fair enough - as i said in reply to a comment above:

Yes, well, from what i've been reading, there actually seems to be consensus around that point, and i think it's fairly clear that i will probably have to change my opinion in this regard. :-)

But here's a question for you: would you feel comfortable with someone who only engages in emotionally uninvolved, no-strings-attached casual sex, and doesn't have any other relationships, calling themselves 'polyamorous'?